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Philippe26 Psycho Posteur
Inscrit le: 10 Fév 2015
Localisation: Allan près de Montélimar
Âge: 70
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Posté le: 20/09/2016 08:45 Sujet du message: |
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Hi,
Yes, it's a pity this heavy tail..... but I agree, the solution is to rebuilt it with lighter tubes... no other way .
It is boring, but now you know how to do the job.....
Courage !
Philippe
Je ne suis pas vieux, je suis jeune depuis plus longtemps que vous......
I am not old, I am young for longer than you .....
"C'est impossible, dit la Fierté; c'est risqué, dit l'Expérience; c'est sans issue, dit la Raison; mais essayons, murmure le coeur » W.A.Ward |
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VincentB Serial Posteur
Inscrit le: 23 Jan 2006
Localisation: En la playa, bajo el sol
Âge: 60
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Posté le: 20/09/2016 10:12 Sujet du message: |
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Tu as fait un superbe boulot Vincent effectivement si tu as utilisé du 0.5mm c'est inutilement lourd pour un empennage, mais avec du tube de 0.25mm de paroi, c'est moins lourd qu'en bois et plus rigide/solide.
Retroplane et modélisme en pause, vanlife à haute dose. |
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bocorvin Maniaco Posteur
Inscrit le: 17 Aoû 2015
Localisation: Hillegom
Âge: 77
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Posté le: 20/09/2016 11:06 Sujet du message: |
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Merci Jose pour les encouragements!
Yes, Phillippe and Vincent, it was not a good idea to make the tailboom from tube with a wall thickness of 0.5 mm. It was my fear that it would buckle to easily because the tubes are very long without being interconnected (45 cm). Besides I read about the danger of the tubes getting bended. I am also not convinced it will fly easily so I liked to have it rugged enough constructed . I have another option; when the tailboom is finished I can slide a carbon tube of 5 mm inside the 6 mm stainless steel tubes ( they are open at the front and they are straight). This adds not much weight and it gives better survival changes for the tailboom with hard landings.
I don't mind making an other one, slowly I get a better idea how Fokker got along with wood, steel, wires and canvas and its good for my soldering skills!
I am waiting for the tubes with wall thickness of 0.25 mm and also for thinner tubes for the tailplanes.
Vincent |
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Philippe26 Psycho Posteur
Inscrit le: 10 Fév 2015
Localisation: Allan près de Montélimar
Âge: 70
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Posté le: 20/09/2016 11:26 Sujet du message: |
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Hi Vincent,
Effectively, an inner carbon tube can be a good solution, not too heavy, and rigid enough.
Courage !
Philippe
Je ne suis pas vieux, je suis jeune depuis plus longtemps que vous......
I am not old, I am young for longer than you .....
"C'est impossible, dit la Fierté; c'est risqué, dit l'Expérience; c'est sans issue, dit la Raison; mais essayons, murmure le coeur » W.A.Ward |
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bocorvin Maniaco Posteur
Inscrit le: 17 Aoû 2015
Localisation: Hillegom
Âge: 77
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Posté le: 20/09/2016 12:19 Sujet du message: |
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Hi Philippe,
Glad you liked the idea. I feel a bit unsecure to use carbon tube for a retroplane glider, but when I got a buckled tailboom at Fauville, I can't repair that. In normal use the carbon tube is not functional, only with hard landings or minor crashes .
Vincent |
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VincentB Serial Posteur
Inscrit le: 23 Jan 2006
Localisation: En la playa, bajo el sol
Âge: 60
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Posté le: 20/09/2016 13:12 Sujet du message: |
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Les tubes de chez tubos capillares sont très raides, et le stab est situé très haut, donc vraiment peu de chance de l'abimer, pour moi c'est inutile d'ajouter du carbone, mais bon tu fais comme tu veux....
Retroplane et modélisme en pause, vanlife à haute dose. |
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bocorvin Maniaco Posteur
Inscrit le: 17 Aoû 2015
Localisation: Hillegom
Âge: 77
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Posté le: 28/09/2016 16:09 Sujet du message: |
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Hello everyone,
Thank you Vincent for convincing me, that the thin walled tube (0.25 mm) is strong enough!
I received the new tubes and made a new tailboom. It looks identical as the old one , but it weighes only 160 gr
Next the horizontal stabilizer; I looked at pictures from the "alte news"
http://www.collectors-edition.de/Alte%20News/english.htm in which is described how they build a exact replica's of Fokker fighters of WW1.
I also used a partly enhanced picture from Hans Disma collection
which showed a lot of info.
I made a jig from 4mm plywood for the horizontal and vertical stabilizers. I used 5 mm tube for the main spar and 3mm tube for the other parts.
The "rudder horns" are very caractaristic. Found some info on the "alte news" I tried to make the from steel. I started with a strip of 0.7 mm steel plate, bend it over 90 degrees and flattened on a 1mm steel plate.
grinded into shape, first with a carborundum disc, later with a diamond one.
In a similar way I made the vertical stabilizers (4 of them!)
I could bend the 3mm tube by hand, didn't buckle.
Now I put it together;
and some detail.
The weight of the tailboom with stabilizers is 365 gr.
To be continued. |
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sebastian92 Serial Posteur
Inscrit le: 01 Sep 2015
Localisation: Hauts de seine
Âge: 60
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Posté le: 28/09/2016 17:35 Sujet du message: |
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Marvelous building !
you are so equipped ! wood, steel, brasure… you touch at all… gold fingers !!
and the website you join is very interesting for details
Pourvu que ça vole, roule, flotte ! normalement j'ai tout bien fait pour…
Un bel avion est un avion qui vole bien ! Marcel Dassault
…………
Sebastian
Vends module émission 2.4 ghz pour Futaba, Hitec TZ-FM + 2 récepteurs corona 8 voies (contact en MP) |
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patte de loup Incurable Posteur
Inscrit le: 25 Jan 2006
Localisation: Alsace (Strasbourg)
Âge: 65
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Posté le: 28/09/2016 17:46 Sujet du message: |
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Pat'
Un "prédateur" des pentes de France et de Navarre |
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VincentB Serial Posteur
Inscrit le: 23 Jan 2006
Localisation: En la playa, bajo el sol
Âge: 60
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Posté le: 28/09/2016 17:49 Sujet du message: |
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Super chouette cet empennage en tube tout est permis, vive le tube
Retroplane et modélisme en pause, vanlife à haute dose. |
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Philippe26 Psycho Posteur
Inscrit le: 10 Fév 2015
Localisation: Allan près de Montélimar
Âge: 70
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Posté le: 28/09/2016 18:20 Sujet du message: |
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Hi Vincent,
If having changed tube thickness has solved your problem, perfect.
What a great job !!!
Wonderful, as said by another guy, you have golden fingers.....
Friendly
Philippe
Je ne suis pas vieux, je suis jeune depuis plus longtemps que vous......
I am not old, I am young for longer than you .....
"C'est impossible, dit la Fierté; c'est risqué, dit l'Expérience; c'est sans issue, dit la Raison; mais essayons, murmure le coeur » W.A.Ward |
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GARCIA Psycho Posteur
Inscrit le: 25 Juil 2010
Localisation: COTE D'OR
Âge: 65
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Posté le: 28/09/2016 18:50 Sujet du message: |
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C'est chouette, super boulot
José |
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Johannes Serial Posteur
Inscrit le: 23 Juil 2007
Localisation: Leichlingen
Âge: 64
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Posté le: 28/09/2016 19:44 Sujet du message: |
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Absolute Spitze |
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bocorvin Maniaco Posteur
Inscrit le: 17 Aoû 2015
Localisation: Hillegom
Âge: 77
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Posté le: 28/09/2016 21:55 Sujet du message: |
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Thank you Sebastian, Pat, Vincent, Phillippe, Jose und Johannes for all the nice comments!
I need it a bit, burnt fingers need some TLC
Next is the nacelle and steering cables, it is a very peculiar construction! Bolts, steel, wood, cables I am not complaining, I enjoy it!
About the website "alter news" there is nothing new on it. There happened something with this wonderful project which I don't understand.
I forgot one picture, this is also an enhancement of the Hans Disma one
This gives a good idea of the rudders.
To be continued! |
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DOMINIQUE DIOT Incurable Posteur
Inscrit le: 03 Nov 2013
Localisation: Somme
Âge: 70
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Posté le: 29/09/2016 08:11 Sujet du message: |
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nickel
Lorsque on est encore en l'air, c'est qu'il est encore entier.
Dominique |
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CHAUSSEBOURG Maniaco Posteur
Inscrit le: 22 Sep 2010
Localisation: Touraine
Âge: 85
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Posté le: 29/09/2016 13:05 Sujet du message: |
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Beautiful work! Congratulations
Pierre
Lorsqu'on est toujours en l'air, c'est qu'on n'est pas encore posé.
Johannes Walkowiak
LDC |
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bocorvin Maniaco Posteur
Inscrit le: 17 Aoû 2015
Localisation: Hillegom
Âge: 77
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Posté le: 29/09/2016 15:24 Sujet du message: |
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Merci Dominique et Pierre pour votre encouragements!
Vincent |
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bocorvin Maniaco Posteur
Inscrit le: 17 Aoû 2015
Localisation: Hillegom
Âge: 77
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Posté le: 12/10/2016 09:41 Sujet du message: |
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Bonjour a tous,
Last weeks I did a lot of different things. I started with the tailplanes, there was a lot of slop in the vertical ones, so I put an aluminium shim in the tube
Beercans can be very useful!
Next was the pin to hold both the vertical tailplanes together. I drilled and reamed a 1.5 mm hole through both tubes, used a nail as a pin and with a small clip from 0.6 mm steel secured it.
I also made a support for the seats in which all the rc equipment was installed. It is fixed with two M3 bolts directly to the rear vertical strut, the wing warping force will be just there. In the front of this support are the servo's for the tailplanes and tow hook.
Here is an overview picture how it fits together. I also changed things at the nacell itself, put in vertical stiffeners (1,5 mm stainless steel, bike spokes) otherwise I think the nacelle will be deformed when I put the diacov on.
Made from the same material half loops for apertures for the struts and ruddercables. Made a support for the aerotow hook (was not in the real thing and I will make a catapult hook in the skid)
All the different parts etc, also the lead ballast (550gr, flat lead epoxied together) and battery pack. I also replaced the diagonal wooden struts in the front by tubes. Later it will be covered with 0.6mm ply.
and when put together will create the fuselage
To be continued,
Vincent. |
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Frédéric Psycho Posteur
Inscrit le: 22 Juin 2006
Localisation: Corrèze
Âge: 59
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Posté le: 13/10/2016 09:07 Sujet du message: |
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Salut Vincent !
Amicalement
Frédéric
"L'eau plate ne favorise pas le vol de pente." Otto Lilienthal
"In Cyano véritas" Michel Coneuf
"Veni, bibi, vomi" Pasqual VOMITINO
Retroplane fort et vert ! |
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bocorvin Maniaco Posteur
Inscrit le: 17 Aoû 2015
Localisation: Hillegom
Âge: 77
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Posté le: 13/10/2016 11:42 Sujet du message: |
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Salut Frédéric,
Merci pour les compliments!
The construction is a bit unconventional and I am not used to it ; wood with metal and bolts, it takes a lot of time!
Amicalement,
Vincent |
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hb Accro Posteur
Inscrit le: 02 Sep 2009
Localisation: cherbourg
Âge: 53
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Posté le: 13/10/2016 17:30 Sujet du message: |
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Bravo pour ce superbe boulot de formage et de soudure
Bruno |
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bocorvin Maniaco Posteur
Inscrit le: 17 Aoû 2015
Localisation: Hillegom
Âge: 77
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Posté le: 13/10/2016 22:25 Sujet du message: |
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Merci beaucoup pour les encouragements Bruno!,
Yes, it's a strange "contraption" and I try to build it as much as the real thing. I sometimes forget that it was build in ten days! It looks a bit like he used the same idea as the FG 1 and made the nacelle, to get les drag obviously, as a kind of bow or dome tent ( the first one??).
It is informative to look at the first photo of this story to see how this glider was transported , in parts, on a small truck
Amicalement,
Vincent. |
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bocorvin Maniaco Posteur
Inscrit le: 17 Aoû 2015
Localisation: Hillegom
Âge: 77
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Posté le: 20/10/2016 13:29 Sujet du message: |
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Bonjour a tous,
A couple of weeks ago I discovered at "The alte news" that in the WWI fokker a tear shaped tube was used
So I like to replace the wooden diagonal struts into metal ones and I tried to make it from 6mm X 0.5 mm tube, covered with 0.6 ply. First I soaked the ply with boiling water, gradually folding it around the tube
After a couple of days it was nicely in shape.
Covered the clamping battens with tape
, needed some washing pegs to keep the very slippery battens in their position, put thick cyano on it and pressed it together, just as before. Result when dry
I still want to pour in epoxy resin, so the ply can't come off!
Next the wing tip handles, this is very characteristic one the real thing!
From 4mm tube with steel cable to prevent buckling I bended two handles
and soldered verticals at it. Closed the open ends with pieces of mild steel, in one a M2,5 nut, which of course was filled up with solder....
At the same time I made wing skids from 3 layers 2mm spruce and sanded it in shape
Next was the bottom of the nacelle, I have only an idea how it was constructed. It looks more like a tent! I guessed he put a steel cable round the wing and a steel cable round the struts of the main skid
I can't make that with diacov, so I tried to make a thing on which I could glue the diacov. Between the struts I will try to put steel wire. Look at the photo's, I made three, now I hope got a good one.....
laminating;
Third attempt;
Hopefully it will look OK with diacov!
To be continued,
Vincent |
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bocorvin Maniaco Posteur
Inscrit le: 17 Aoû 2015
Localisation: Hillegom
Âge: 77
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Posté le: 22/10/2016 12:48 Sujet du message: |
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Bonjour a tous,
Already quite some time I wanted to make a try run putting the plane together. I only needed attachments for the struts between the wings.
From the same mild steel 0.7 mm plate I made a "U" shaped profile, on which I solderded a M4 nut. Of course the solder ran into the thread, but a tap solved the problem . After the wing is covered, I will put a short lenght of M4 in it (not throuh the spar) and glue in the nut. I don't want to weaken the 8mm spar with a 4mm hole.
I had the plan to solder the rigging gear at the struts, the struts itself go over the M4 bolt and secure it with a spring steel clip. Sometimes you are short of hands...
Now I could put it together
The wings aren't straight at the foto's, but that will be OK with the rigging installed.
To my big relief it felt quite rigid, I am still concerned if the wings can be warped after covering, hope they will!
Now I am slowly worrying how it will fly!
Vincent. |
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sebastian92 Serial Posteur
Inscrit le: 01 Sep 2015
Localisation: Hauts de seine
Âge: 60
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Posté le: 22/10/2016 13:07 Sujet du message: |
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only one word : marvelous !
respect of details (you have chance of a lot of pictures)
PS : il fait beau outre manche
Pourvu que ça vole, roule, flotte ! normalement j'ai tout bien fait pour…
Un bel avion est un avion qui vole bien ! Marcel Dassault
…………
Sebastian
Vends module émission 2.4 ghz pour Futaba, Hitec TZ-FM + 2 récepteurs corona 8 voies (contact en MP) |
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bocorvin Maniaco Posteur
Inscrit le: 17 Aoû 2015
Localisation: Hillegom
Âge: 77
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Posté le: 22/10/2016 13:24 Sujet du message: |
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Thank you Sebastian!
It is nice to figure out all the small things, it takes time, but it gives me a lot of satisfaction! At this moment we are guessing about the colour of the metal parts, with Hans Disma and the Fokker heritage, must it be khaki (more or less the standard colour), or grey (which the Fokker heritage found on other Fokkers). When looking at the black and white pictures I think, maybe it is grey....
Of course, when the painting is finished, the right colour will show up
Vincent |
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de Schaetzen Harold Maniaco Posteur
Inscrit le: 06 Avr 2006
Localisation: Schilde
Âge: 78
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Posté le: 23/10/2016 14:16 Sujet du message: |
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Citation: Sometimes you are short of hands...
I understand, if you are drinking continuously a can of beer!
In the meantime we are looking at your constrcution with a lot of admiration.
Good construction.
Harold |
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bocorvin Maniaco Posteur
Inscrit le: 17 Aoû 2015
Localisation: Hillegom
Âge: 77
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Posté le: 23/10/2016 17:05 Sujet du message: |
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Hello Harold,
Sorry for giving that impression! I needed a can for the shim in the rudder and when I need something for support or as a tool, I grab the first thing that I can use. It's always a but messy in my workplace
Thanks a lot for your comments!
Vincent. |
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Mad Doc Accro Posteur
Inscrit le: 08 Juil 2014
Localisation: Wuppertal, Deutschland
Âge: 47
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Posté le: 02/11/2016 12:32 Sujet du message: |
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Sensationeller Bau!!! Ich bin schwer beeindruckt und will jetzt auch lernen wie man Hartlötet!
Liebe Grüße,
Christian |
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Christian Serial Posteur
Inscrit le: 02 Mai 2006
Localisation: Europe
Âge: 61
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Posté le: 02/11/2016 13:37 Sujet du message: |
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Christian
Orlik en construction |
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