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Fokker FG-2 - Congrès 2017 Vauville
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bocorvin
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MessagePosté le: 12/05/2016 21:27    Sujet du message: Fokker FG-2 - Congrès 2017 Vauville Répondre en citant

Hello everyone, I am Vincent de Bode from Holland. I can speak and understand French and German, but writing it, is difficult for me. English is easier, but it is still a foreign language for me, so excuse my mistakes.

I liked to join Congres Vauville 2017 very much, so I was looking for a suitable glider.
Rob, who is a Fokker fan showed me a picture of the FG-2 and I thought; that can't be to difficult. (mistake!)
It will be built scale 1 : 5 with a wingspan of 2.4 meters ( its a biplane, quite voluminous)
We tried to get a proper set of plans, but till now we didn't succeed. I am quite sure when it is finished, the drawings show up MDR .

I hesitated a lot where to put this story, in "Constructions détaillées en Photo" or "Constructions Métalliques".
About 70% of the fuselage is steel tube, combined with wood. The horizontal and vertical tailplanes are also from steel tube, so I put it in "Constructions Métalliques".


When looking at different photo's and (very short) video's (all on the net) I discovered he made a lot of changes on the plane. I started to read a lot about Anthony Fokker to get an idea how he constructed aircraft. It was great fun and I even discovered I was at the same secondary school (a lot earlier) and I even recognised the old fysics classroom on the movie of his live.

Next story is a mostly guesswork combined with facts and analysing photo's and video's.

Fokker went to the Wasserkuppe in 1922 with two gliders, the FG-1 single seater and the FG-2 double seater. A reporter writes that they were build in 10 days!!! The wings are in one piece, here on a transport craddle on a truck. Also visible the internal nose construction with the skid.



Anthony Fokker with the FG-1



And the FG-2. On top of the rear centre vertical strut is the pully for the wing warping.











One of the drawings I found, which showed ailerons!



I guess he had control problems partly because the plane had a very short tailboom (I discovered that much later) First change was enlarging the vertical tailplane.
Another drawing I found, with enlarged vertical tailplane, but the tailboom not correct.








I think the tailboom was far too short, on one video it looks he is not very good in control, tries to land , but stays in the air, people are a bit running away. On most photo's someone is lifting the tail, or they put with a pole under it, it is a bit hidden, look carefully!
Maybe also the cg was to far aft???
So they made a longer tailboom, added a tube frame to stiffen the tubes, made the nose longer and changed the steel tube/ canvas streamline nacelle. (I read a story from him that they changed a prototype of one of his fighters in one night, made the fuselage longer).

One of the best photo's I found.



I was looking for the ailerons on this photo, I couldn't find them....





I think he flew succesfully with this configuration. but I found again another photo, with ailerons!
I guess this was done later, I didn't find a photo with ailerons and flying
but is a very informative picture.



I tried to make a drawing, it's a lot of guess work. It helped to see how his planes where made of wood and steel , bolted together and lots of wire.
The wing looks very transparant, so I have to make "nervures aux baguettes". Rob came up with the idea to make the wings in three parts. One short piece connected to the fuselage and two outer parts demountable for transport.



On the drawing I made(it is more a scetch) red is steel tube, green is wood, blue the wing and canvas.
Back to the ailerons (or lack of them) Fokker had a lot of experience with wing warping and obviously this plane had it.
The front girders with the struts and cross rigging, combined with rigging to the nose and tail should made it rigid. Rigging in green.


The rear girder was only attached in one point (the rear strut, it had 3 struts in the middle instead of 4). On top of the rear strut is a pully and at the bottom of this strut must be a connection to the torsion tube of the control , which is under the wing. In the model comes a big servo, about the same as the Willy Farner from Fréderic. His building story is very helpfull!
Because the rear girder is resting on one point there should be no bending in the rear girder when the wings are warped.


The photo in the beginning of this article from the FG-1 gives an idea of the controls.
So, this was a lot of puzzling, I can now start building.
I think I am going to make all the ribs this summer, Adri is going to CNC a aluminium jig to make the ribs in, something like 80!
All info is welcome!
to be continued, Vincent
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VincentB
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MessagePosté le: 13/05/2016 04:53    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Bonjour Vincent

Ha chouette enfin un nouveau projet qui se concrétise pour Vauville [clap]

Pour les biplans, triplans... je me demande si on aurait pas pu réduire l'envergure à 2m, ça fait déjà une belle taille, enfin ça dépend aussi de l'échelle. A 2m ça ferait au 1/6e c'est encore bien pour les détails.
Donc si ça t'arrange de construire plus petit... Mais bon si tu as déjà les plans tracés et tout prévu, fais comme tu veux Wink



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MessagePosté le: 13/05/2016 06:13    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

[clap] [clap]
next projekt is starting
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bocorvin
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MessagePosté le: 14/05/2016 10:49    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Merci Vincent et Wolfgang pour les comments!

About the scale, yes it's getting pretty big, I think it's worth a try, hopefully it will fly more steady and I was already mentally prepared Very Happy

Vincent.
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MessagePosté le: 14/06/2016 10:36    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Bonjour a tous,
Quite suddenly I started with the ribs. I thought to make them of battens 2 mm X 3mm spruce with gusset plates from 0.8 mm ply and a nose section from 3 mm ply. Adri had some spare time and so he could CNC the jigs for the ribs. One of the easy things on the FG-2 is that the wings are straight, so alle the ribs are mor or less the same. So it was a good idea to make a jig. At that time (I made a stupid error) I thought I needed 80 ribs, later I accidentely discovered I needed 140!
We first thought of milling them out of aluminium, but after some thouhts and discussions we got the advice to make them of Delrin, a kind of plastic which looks and feels the same as nylon, but is much better for milling. At a local shop I could buy a piece of 10 X 100 cm and Adri started milling. Before he started I tried to glue a piece of wood on the Delrin with cyano and indeed it didn't stick at all! He proposed to make the jig 2mm deep, so the ribs will protrude 1mm, good for sanding and get it out of the jig.

He also made small nose section from 3mm ply

Some battens needed a bit of sanding to get in the jig



aftre fitting in all the battens and gluing on the gusset plates ther was a tense moment, will it come out? to my relief after twisting and bending the jig a bit, it came out easily

Very Happy

On the background all the milled pieces, gusset plates and nose sections, at tis moment for 80 ribs. in total I need 710 halfround and 1120 quarter round gusset plates.

The aluminium jig is for making th tailpiece, and Adri milled two jigs, for left and right ribs (the gusset plates are only on one side) I two days I made some 20 ribs and now my hands are a bit tired!





I am amazed how strong the ribs are! Only 120 to go....
To be continued.
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MessagePosté le: 14/06/2016 10:57    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

C'est une très bonne idée le moule en Delrin quand toutes les nervures sont les mêmes. Paolo Severin perce le moule afin de démouler encore plus facilement les nervures, voir sur son site http://www.paoloseverin.it/techno/ribs/page41.html


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MessagePosté le: 14/06/2016 16:42    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Oui c'est une bonne idée ce moule. Travail très propre [clap] [clap] [clap]


José
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MessagePosté le: 29/06/2016 16:16    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Bonjour a tous,

First I continued with the ribs and I tried to speed things a bit up. I wanted to have it finished before the holydays. I made an adjustable jig to cut all the vertical and diagonal trusses to the correct lenght.

I slowly realised the amount of work! All these bits have to be glued!

This is how I cut the diagonals.



Some of the top and bottom battens had to be sanded down to fit into the jig. This is my favorite sanding block, 10mm balsa with self adhesive sandingpaper.

With all the battens in the jig I sanded the surface flat

. One drop of gap filling cyano and directly I put the gusset plate on his position.



and pressed it on for 15 seconds. (Yes its not the same gusset plate.) It seems to me that, after some time, it became harder to get the ribs out of the jig. Luckily Vincent pointed me at the jigs of Paolo Severin who had made holes in the jig to tap the ribs out. That exactly what I did (thankyou Vincent!)



That went much better! So I made the last 50 to 60 ribs this way

The last one [amen] Adri calculated it, 3784 actions!






Now I only have to build the plane...
In the meantime I did some more research and I contacted the Aviodrome Collectiebeheer. They quickly answered me and mailed a plan!
Wonderful! With handwritten text, very good.
From Aviodrome, Collectiebeheer;

This drawing had some very interesting measures, the height (which I had almost correctly got from the fotographs) and a different wingspan, (11.20 m instead of 12 m). They also gave me the name of Hans Disma, who has a archive. I mailed him and he send me the same plan and some very interesting stuff. First a German article which mentioned the same wingspan (11.20 m) and also a description of the qualities of the plane; they thought that it was more a floater, not very suitable for soaring, due to the low wingload.
From the archive of Hans Disma;


In this article the spacing of the main spars in the wing was mentioned (55cm), we had estimated that correct! The other thing he send was a wunderful and very informative picture.
From the archive of Hans Disma

This is a gem! There are so much details; I think it was taken at the Wasserkuppe, the FG 2 standing on some crates Laughing on the left someone is taken off the cloth of one rudder, I guess to enlarge it, Anthony Fokker with another man and two woman is changing the nacelle. This looks like the first modification, enlarged vertical stabilizer, still a short tailboom and the nacelle hanging over the trailingedge of the wing. Later the nacelle is moved forward and the tailboom lenghtened. This picture gives a very good image of the wing and I detected internal crossbracing. Also good visible is the thickness of the spars and I think I drawed them to bulky. In the model (and already in made the ribs!) they were planned for 8mm thick, and I think they should be something like 4mm. It means that the apertures in the ribs are to big. Luckily you only will see it when you look into the wing.
The thing that worries me a bit are the planned joints in the wing, but it's very impractical to make the wings in one piece. Something to breed on!

To be continued,

Vincent.
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Johannes
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MessagePosté le: 29/06/2016 20:41    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Toller Bericht [clap] [clap]
Bitte weiter so Very Happy

Johannes
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sebastian92
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MessagePosté le: 29/06/2016 20:48    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

marvelous technic for building ! [clap]


Pourvu que ça vole, roule, flotte… normalement j'ai tout bien fait pour !
…………
Sebastian
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bocorvin
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MessagePosté le: 30/06/2016 14:48    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Thanks Sebastian for the compliments und danke Johannes fur die [clap]
It is always very encouraging!

Vincent.
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MessagePosté le: 30/06/2016 20:55    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Vincent, I like your ribs. Wonderful!


Lorsqu'on est toujours en l'air, c'est qu'on n'est pas encore posé.
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MessagePosté le: 01/07/2016 07:19    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Hallo Vincent,
was für ein Profil hast Du genommen?
Ich brauche noch eine Idee für mein Stehaufchen Confused

Johannes
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bocorvin
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MessagePosté le: 02/07/2016 09:54    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Hallo Johannes,

Ich habe nur die abbildung der Rippen:


Die Nahme kommt doch spater, , all die Locher gehoren naturlich nicht dabei Wink

Vincent
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bocorvin
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MessagePosté le: 02/07/2016 20:52    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Hallo Johannes,
Rob hat es gefunden, das profil ist: Eppler E174.

Vincent
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